power level debate on cam and sabbat

Mewcat wrote: All the "high end" cam cards like 2nd trad, parity shit, alastor, justicar titles, whatever else.

Parity shift has just received an errata.

2nd Tradition is indeed a solid card. Then again, how much worse is, say, is Eternal Vigilance? What about Under Siege?

I do not see Alastor being used overtly much and neither the justicar titles.


Whatever else.
Yeah, I sure can see the miniscule amount of Camarilla specific cards such as Camarilla Exemplary being problematic...

All the while Sabbat has, like 10 times the amount of cards directed at the sect (more if you count Black Hand), a good chunk of which is available to rank and file members of the sect.

Anarchs have a lot a very powerful cards only few of which require Baron. There are some very strong cards for Laibon too.

With this I do not see the problem with the cards you mention.
Problem I see is the lack of cards available to Primogens and regular non-titled memebrs of Camarilla.

When a card gets fixed in a game that prides itself on not fixing things we can see a problem card.

2nd trad is much much better than eternal vigilance or under seige.

Alastor is just an example of a good card that just had to go to cam.

All those sabbat cards stink. 10 Chalice of kinship doesnt equal 2nd trad.

Mewcat wrote: When a card gets fixed in a game that prides itself on not fixing things we can see a problem card.

2nd trad is much much better than eternal vigilance or under seige.

Alastor is just an example of a good card that just had to go to cam.

All those sabbat cards stink. 10 Chalice of kinship doesnt equal 2nd trad.

6 cap vampires with all clan superior disciplines suck.

Sabbat titled vampires having about two levels of disciplines more and/or two more abilities than equivalent Camarilla titled vampire suck.

Hungry Coyote sucks.

Dia de los Muertos sucks.

Fear of Mekhet sucks.

Banning Protect Thine Own sucks.

Changing Parity Shift wording sucks.


I don't think the discussion like this leads anywhere. The grass will be always greener on the other side. I mean the 2nd Trad. and Parity Shift are obviously one of the most efficient cards in the game. However, the game is pretty complex and seeking its own balance which means the faster we jump into conclusions the sillier we are. Let's focus on the topic and give Nosferatu and/or !Nosferatu some love

BlueSadDoll wrote:

I mean the 2nd Trad. and Parity Shift are obviously one of the most efficient cards in the game. However, the game is pretty complex

Is it really that complex? If we don't admit the problems how can we fix them. Just sounds like political non sense to me. Problem is "too complex" to discuss.

P.S.

Archbishops under 7 cap: 2, Archbishops 7 cap:4
Princes under 7 cap:8. princes 7 cap:13

Are we learning anything

Mewcat wrote:

BlueSadDoll wrote:

I mean the 2nd Trad. and Parity Shift are obviously one of the most efficient cards in the game. However, the game is pretty complex

Is it really that complex? If we don't admit the problems how can we fix them. Just sounds like political non sense to me. Problem is "too complex" to discuss.

In order to prove whether or not Camarilla has stronger cards than Sabbat we need to have a measurement system. What do you suggest?

If I return back to your original comment that 2nd. Tradition is stronger than several dual discipline cards then I am saying it is also easier to base a deck on vampires with two disciplines rather than building a deck on vampires that have prince or justicar title. Also, both prince and justicar titles could be contested. Also, there is likely to be one justicar in the crypt otherwise you need to give up on disciplines.

For example Read The Winds you can play in a deck averaging 4.75 with 50% of the crypt being AUS ANI, 25% being aus ani and the rest being just ani. In a game you aim to have 4-5 minions out and 2 of them should be able to play Read the Winds superior, 1 of them inferior and the rest cannot play it at all. What would be the average crypt of the deck based on princes and justicars, so that at least 50% vamps can play 2nd tradition. And if so, how many disciplines will they have in common?

Mewcat wrote:

BlueSadDoll wrote:
Archbishops under 7 cap: 2, Archbishops 7 cap:4
Princes under 7 cap:8. princes 7 cap:13

Could you please elaborate on this? I don't follow what "cap" means and what the numbers are.