Repo man and whether or not other Methuselah see the library during search

You have to search your library from the top. You don't reveal the cards to your opponent's. You have to get the first vehicle you find, as Ankha wrote, and play it.

Hopefully all vtes cards who have this problem will be fixed. If I remember well, mistress fanchon, vast wealth also have this problem.

Charles_Bronson wrote: Hopefully all vtes cards who have this problem will be fixed. If I remember well, mistress fanchon, vast wealth also have this problem.

http://www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/cardlist.txt wrote: Name: Mistress Fanchon
[KoT:V/B2]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Tremere
Group: 4
Capacity: 11
Discipline: AUS CEL DOM OBF THA VIC
Camarilla Tremere Inner Circle: Mistress Fanchon can search your library (shuffle afterward) for any minion card and move it to your hand as a +1 stealth action. +2 bleed.
Artist: Ken Meyer, Jr.

Mistress Fanchon performs a search on library (following the search rules.) To my knowledge Repo Man is the only card in the card list with "retrieve" as the word used (easy to check, just search the *.txt) but as it's ruled to behave it's "retrieve" in similar fashion as Vast Wealth works (after unblocked and succesful equip action via Vast Wealth) I have no problem understanding how it works. Top to bottom, no knowledge gained, forced to equip.

http://www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/cardlist.txt wrote: Name: Vast Wealth
[Jyhad:U, VTES:U, CE:PTo, Third:U, KoT:U]
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Put this card on a ready minion you control. While you control this minion, he or she can equip with the first piece of equipment you find in your library (working down from the top) as a +1 stealth action (requirements and cost apply as normal). Shuffle afterward.
Artist: Kaja Foglio; William O'Connor

In possible future printings or card text updates Repo Man could use additional clarification with "first vehicle in your library (working down from the top)." Or if there's wish to create multiple similar cards with separate deck manipulation perhaps "retrieve" could become it's own keyword in the fashion that search is on the "Wording templates" in the rulebook.

http://www.vekn.net/rulebook wrote: "Search": Some effects have you search your library or cyrpt. Searching can result in not finding the card. If you search your library or crypt, you must shuffle it afterwards.

Difference between the two being that search enables one to fail in finding something (even if there are suitable cards) whereas retrieve forces one to take it. It could also be argued that unnecessarily complicates the already complicated game but I personally don't feel that way, as there's clear difference with pro's and con's, power and costs. Search is the safe but costly and limited, retrieve being possibly high risk-high reward. I trust minds less rusty on the overall state of the game then mine can ponder such questions as needed. I got my answer already and can clarify it to the group next time we play, thanks for all the clarifications and time spent explaining this for me.

I think search and retrieve should be in the rulebook as key words with proper description how they work. Also in both cases they should include reveal mechanic.In case of Search you should reveal the card you take and in case of retrieve you should reveal every card until you will find the card you need. It would resolve a issue of "trust".

Repo Man can retrieve the first vehicle you find in your library

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Good job card designers

Kilrauko wrote:

Charles_Bronson wrote: Hopefully all vtes cards who have this problem will be fixed. If I remember well, mistress fanchon, vast wealth also have this problem.

http://www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/cardlist.txt wrote: Name: Mistress Fanchon
[KoT:V/B2]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Tremere
Group: 4
Capacity: 11
Discipline: AUS CEL DOM OBF THA VIC
Camarilla Tremere Inner Circle: Mistress Fanchon can search your library (shuffle afterward) for any minion card and move it to your hand as a +1 stealth action. +2 bleed.
Artist: Ken Meyer, Jr.

Mistress Fanchon performs a search on library (following the search rules.) To my knowledge Repo Man is the only card in the card list with "retrieve" as the word used (easy to check, just search the *.txt) but as it's ruled to behave it's "retrieve" in similar fashion as Vast Wealth works (after unblocked and succesful equip action via Vast Wealth) I have no problem understanding how it works. Top to bottom, no knowledge gained, forced to equip.

http://www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/cardlist.txt wrote: Name: Vast Wealth
[Jyhad:U, VTES:U, CE:PTo, Third:U, KoT:U]
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Put this card on a ready minion you control. While you control this minion, he or she can equip with the first piece of equipment you find in your library (working down from the top) as a +1 stealth action (requirements and cost apply as normal). Shuffle afterward.
Artist: Kaja Foglio; William O'Connor

In possible future printings or card text updates Repo Man could use additional clarification with "first vehicle in your library (working down from the top)." Or if there's wish to create multiple similar cards with separate deck manipulation perhaps "retrieve" could become it's own keyword in the fashion that search is on the "Wording templates" in the rulebook.

http://www.vekn.net/rulebook wrote: "Search": Some effects have you search your library or cyrpt. Searching can result in not finding the card. If you search your library or crypt, you must shuffle it afterwards.

Difference between the two being that search enables one to fail in finding something (even if there are suitable cards) whereas retrieve forces one to take it. It could also be argued that unnecessarily complicates the already complicated game but I personally don't feel that way, as there's clear difference with pro's and con's, power and costs. Search is the safe but costly and limited, retrieve being possibly high risk-high reward. I trust minds less rusty on the overall state of the game then mine can ponder such questions as needed. I got my answer already and can clarify it to the group next time we play, thanks for all the clarifications and time spent explaining this for me.

Hi! Thanks for your considerations. I don't think I expressed myself well. The "problem" I was talking about was the need for a judge to be called to avoid bad behavior. Mistress fanchon controller does not show the card he chose to anyone - enabling him to get master or events cards (non minion cards). Also vast wealth have similar text from repo man.

This problem should not happen in any way by default on modern card games, except if there is absolutely no other way to do it by rules design. And there is a way - revealing the cards showed or fetched with fanchon - with a very minor disavantage in gameplay.

Hopefully those cards will be revised and fixed by black chantry.