Rules Team Rulings - RTR 07/07/2016

GreyB wrote: As an organisation for promoting VTES and working on getting VTES back to print, it would be diplomatically (and legally) wrong to allow 100% self printed cards.

Okay, so there's a diplomatic/legal reason for requiring VTES backing cards. If that's the case, then the rule makes sense to me.

GreyB wrote:

TwoRazorReign wrote: And what was the answer again? All I saw was a question answered with a question. See the first page in this thread. Is there another answer here that I missed?

I don't think this answer was given in this thread, but I read it somewhere else concerning PDF set cards, but it definitely applies to proxy cards as well.

You need to have official VTES/JYHAD backing cards to guarantee you're playing a 100% VTES/JYHAD product deck, even if you use proxy/pdf-set cards. As an organisation for promoting VTES and working on getting VTES back to print, it would be diplomatically (and legally) wrong to allow 100% self printed cards.

These rules apply to official VEKN sanctioned events. You can allow anything on unsanctioned events.

This answer was given in this thread.
Several people have pointed to the fact that all tournament decks should be built only with cards of said game.
We also gave arguments to the fact that before, a player had to gather the real cards and this is now gigantically easier, as now all one needs are any copies of any cards.

Mr. TwoRazorReign has been dismissive of any arguments that he doesn't agree with, to the point of denying their existence, although they are a few post before.
I do not wish to speculate why he is displaying this attitude, only that it has driven people away from the conversation.

This answer was given in this thread.
Several people have pointed to the fact that all tournament decks should be built only with cards of said game.
We also gave arguments to the fact that before, a player had to gather the real cards and this is now gigantically easier, as now all one needs are any copies of any cards.

I think what's happening is you and others are misunderstanding the question. Remi asked "May I ask why you still ask to print on standard paper and use a genuine cards to use proxies?" Until GreyB mentioned there was a diplomatic/legal reason for it, I had yet to see a genuine answer to this question. I am sorry you feel I am being dismissive, but I think that question deserves an answer other than the one you give above here.

After reading GreyB's answer, I think the rule makes sense and is a good one.

Dear all,

TwoRazorReign wrote:

GreyB wrote: As an organisation for promoting VTES and working on getting VTES back to print, it would be diplomatically (and legally) wrong to allow 100% self printed cards.

Okay, so there's a diplomatic/legal reason for requiring VTES backing cards. If that's the case, then the rule makes sense to me.

I do not agree. It would make sense only if using proxies were a legally problem.
I do not even imagine a company saying : "Wait! I am thinking about printing a cardgame, I do not want anyone to print their own proxies because it will be a problem in the future."
I am sure that the question has never been asked to that company.

I mean allowing players without any cards to create their own proxies has only one risk : maybe they could discover VTES... which could even lead to transform them into future customers. It means free advertisment campaign for a product which is not yet confirmed. Why do almost every card game show pre-released cards on the web before selling them? People can try them, talks about them. At the end people buys more product.

By the way, people who has the cards still does not want to play with people who does not, there is nothing else to add there.

Regards,
Rémi.

Rémi wrote: I mean allowing players without any cards to create their own proxies has only one risk : maybe they could discover VTES... which could even lead to transform them into future customers. It means free advertisment campaign for a product which is not yet confirmed. Why do almost every card game show pre-released cards on the web before selling them? People can try them, talks about them. At the end people buys more product.

Not really a problem as so few places are selling VETS any more...

Rémi wrote: By the way, people who has the cards still does not want to play with people who does not, there is nothing else to add there.

Wow, really!?
At least in Finland the more experienced players are really quite welcoming to newer ones.