Rules Team Rulings - RTR 07/07/2016

Rémi wrote: Dear all,

Thanks, that sounds some good news. May I ask why you still ask to print on standard paper and use a genuine cards to use proxies?

I guess Damnans or Pascal or somebody in charge could answer this (anytime soon preferably!), but my take is that if you force people to use VTES cards as backs, you will never get into any kind of argument with people using cards that are ALMOST the exact measurements, thickness and so on. It prevents that kind of cheating. Do you understand what I am saying Rémi?

Brum wrote: I think is actually a mater of IP legality.

How?

If the use of proxy prints does not infringe IP rights, then the presence of an official piece of cardboard is irrelevant.

If the use of proxy prints does infringe IP rights, the presence of an official piece of cardboard does not alter that. If I've infringed artistic copyright held by an artist or by Wizards/Hasbro, the fact that there is a piece of cardboard in there with artwork by a different artist produced by White Wolf doesn't change any element of the infringement. And the same would potentially apply for more or less any other potential IP infringement, to the extent that any intellectual property still vests in Hasbro/Wizards. (Anything owned by White Wolf/CCP and transferred to Paradox is fine in this scenario.)

TwoRazorReign wrote: These people probably don't want the hassle...

VtES is a complicated game with no real rewards for tournament wins in which one player can easily spoil 2-hour game for 4 others.

People, who "don't want the hassle" will make the tournament worse and after it will be generally lost to comunity anyway. It's better for them to not come at the first place.

TwoRazorReign wrote: Requiring actual VTES cards for use with proxies is an added barrier to entry to tournaments. Consider the players who sold their collections ages ago but now want to get back into tournament-level VTES with proxies. These people probably don't want the hassle of buying old, used junk cards to re-enter the game. Sure, the cards are cheap. But you can't just walk into a store and pick them up from the shelf. And nobody wants to buy old, crappy cards no matter how cheap they are. These may seem like small considerations, but they are significant barriers to entry.

Please read what Brum just wrote.
Anyone can easily get 102 VTES cards from any of the current players.
Not any kind of restricting matter!

Besides, it is easier to use the exact same rules that we already use with the new PDF sets!

elotar wrote:

TwoRazorReign wrote: These people probably don't want the hassle...

VtES is a complicated game with no real rewards for tournament wins in which one player can easily spoil 2-hour game for 4 others.

People, who "don't want the hassle" will make the tournament worse and after it will be generally lost to comunity anyway. It's better for them to not come at the first place.

Oh really? It sounds to me like you're scared that the guy who doesn't own any actual cards is going to end up with more VPs than you.

Lönkka wrote:

TwoRazorReign wrote: Requiring actual VTES cards for use with proxies is an added barrier to entry to tournaments. Consider the players who sold their collections ages ago but now want to get back into tournament-level VTES with proxies. These people probably don't want the hassle of buying old, used junk cards to re-enter the game. Sure, the cards are cheap. But you can't just walk into a store and pick them up from the shelf. And nobody wants to buy old, crappy cards no matter how cheap they are. These may seem like small considerations, but they are significant barriers to entry.

Please read what Brum just wrote.
Anyone can easily get 102 VTES cards from any of the current players.
Not any kind of restricting matter!

Besides, it is easier to use the exact same rules that we already use with the new PDF sets!

Sure it's easier, but it's still restricting those that don't own any cards from tournaments. Why have this restriction? If somebody wants to play in a tournament of VTES, a game that has been out of print for 6 years now with no immediate future of going back into print, they should be able to play in the tournament.

And that's generous of you to be willing to lend your cards to players who show up to tournaments without any cards. However, it should not be an expectation that players should hand out their cards for other players to borrow. People can easily forget to return them, or cards may get lost, or someone may just decide to start their own collection by stealing your cards...