Villein hate, idea 9001

Lönkka wrote: Lession learned: Buy products when they are available so you don't need to cry over spilt milk.

Lesson learned: don't spill the milk so you won't have to cry over the spilled milk
the milk which nobody knew was going to spill until it did
buy more milk before it goes out of production

Yeah, thes scene in Finland is pretty much dead...
This week there's a tournament that has consistently been the 2nd largest in the world for years on end with around 90 players or so and only around half a dozen of those are foreigners.

so you're saying we should all move to Finland? do they still have milk there?

"think of the new players" = "think of the children"
Not very convincing argument IMHO.

I also have never been quite convinced that these so-called "children" exist. and if these "children" hypothetically start crying because they want milk, then they should've bought some milk before they were born.

this post sponsored by milk®™

prunesquallor wrote: So, because you have no new players where you are, there are therefore no new players anywhere.

I never said neither.

prunesquallor wrote: If everyone playing the game thinks that way then I guarantee the game will be effectively dead in a couple of years.

prunesquallor wrote: At least in the US, most retailers have provided no support for the game unless they have an active playgroup in their shop (which is uncommon). Been this way for years before HttB.

Regarding game's status:
I do think that skipping the US retail system for cheaper bang for VtES buck certainly contributed to the current demise of the game. Oversimplification follows - nearly everyone purchases from dirst cheap internet store that sells for non-existent margin, retailers hardly see any product moving and thus stop supporting the game making it harder for someone casually come across the game for the first time, manufacturer sales dwindle and lisence is not renewed.

prunesquallor wrote: It's hard to see how to carry the conversation forward - you believe that new players don't exist, and I do; you talk of theoretical past access to cards and I'm only concerned with what can be done today.

Thousands and thousands of Villein are out there. It is not like only 100 were printed.

Proxying isn't likely to be happening, PDF printing already existing cards certainly won't be hapening due copyright. Banning seems to be a possibility, but do we really want start banning cards after the set(s) they apperared sell out? There'll always be killer cards that won't be available any more for the "new players".


Ah, Haze certainly has a chip on his shoulder regarding proverbs.
I wasn't saying that everyone needs to move here, I was just demonstrating to prunesquallor, who suggested that not enough was done to keep the local scene alive, that the local scene is thriving.

Local supplies for quite a few sold-out product dwindled after preiously non-ecistent foreign demand entered equation.

Lönkka wrote: Regarding game's status:
I do think that skipping the US retail system for cheaper bang for VtES buck certainly contributed to the current demise of the game. Oversimplification follows - nearly everyone purchases from dirst cheap internet store that sells for non-existent margin, retailers hardly see any product moving and thus stop supporting the game making it harder for someone casually come across the game for the first time, manufacturer sales dwindle and lisence is not renewed.

With all due respect, every store owner I've met who sells VTES has the business sense of a (insert the name of an inanimate object here). Now I didn't meet the owner at the place I played at near Seattle, but he went out of business so that doesn't necessarily take away from my point. That said, I agree with you that buying all these cards online has seriously hurt the bottom line for retailers.

Now we're just off on a tangent.

Yeah, the local store in Pori some four, five years ago never had a lot of VTES on sale, so usually somebody just came in, bought everything (I.E. one box), then if you ordered from there it took longer than ordering from Germany, cost more and at least once I got the wrong product. And that was one of the few products that would have sold, not that old Warhammer crap that kept collecting dust... Well now there's no such store in Pori.

I haven't seen a new VTES player in a long time. I think the last batch was three or four years ago, and after that, nothing. Where would they come from, anyway, I sure don't know anybody who's interested in starting a CCG, especially with the increasing number of high-quality board games, a much cheaper prospect... I think the death of oWod reduced the interest to this game, after all a lot of VTES players were playing the RPG's first.