Rush and tap

So, a while back in the rules forum, there was a discussion about whether a minion involuntarily entering combat taps it . (Spoiler: it doesn't.) But perhaps it could? So let's start with a simple template:

Who do you think could benefit from a card like that? Restrict it to a particular sect/anarchs, or a particular discipline? Require a particular title, or a lack of title? Require a particular capacity, or older/younger?

Should it have a blood cost? Should it have a Do Not Replace clause? Some other restriction - limit the amount of damage I can do, prevent me gaining blood, no weapons or mandatory weapon usage? A Methuselah can only play one a turn? Something else?


It seems like an interesting avenue to explore, though. Any thoughts?

A good idea! At the moment I am not sure if there are any other rush cards that tap the rush target than Deep Song, which happens because the rush target becomes the acting minion (if I have understood the card right, please correct me if I'm wrong). So perhaps to reduce the popularity of Animalism combat decks, some other disciplines such as Celerity could have one.

An example based on jamesatzephyr's templata:

Swift Assault
Action
Enter combat with a ready minion, and tap that minion.
As above, with an optional maneuver during the first round of combat.

Maybe make it:

Enter combat with any tapped minion, or enter combat with any ally or younger vampire and tap that minion.

Or

Take by force

Requires a ready anarch.

Enter combat with a ready minion and tap them. This vampire can burn a blood to use any of the following effects this action:
Cel: this vampire gets an optional manuever the first round of combat
For:this minion prevents one damage from a strike the first round of combat
Pot: this minions initial hand or melee weapon strike the first round of combat is at +1 damage.

So, its like keystone, but also useable without discipline.....

I was the guy with the rules question.

All I have to say is that it made for interesting blocking / attacking / combat opportunities.

Say your prey has one defender with ; well, suddenly, it's worth rushing that guy, even if you can't drop him, just to get around Deflection. Similarly, your (N/2) blood can rush an (N) blood, just to tap them and get them out of the way.

I know it seems like a small thing, but we just played our first "getting rushed doesn't tap you" game last night, and let me tell you, it changes things; I mean, obviously it does, but more than seems intuitively obvious. It absolutely made combat decks distinctly weaker.

I think rather than a "rush that taps" (or maybe in addition to one), a Master card that says, "At the beginning of combat, tap each vampire involved in that combat", perhaps costing a pool or two, would aid combat decks, perhaps more than it might at first appear.

ReverendRevolver wrote: Maybe make it:

Enter combat with any tapped minion, or enter combat with any ally or younger vampire and tap that minion.

Or

Take by force

Requires a ready anarch.

Enter combat with a ready minion and tap them. This vampire can burn a blood to use any of the following effects this action:
Cel: this vampire gets an optional manuever the first round of combat
For:this minion prevents one damage from a strike the first round of combat
Pot: this minions initial hand or melee weapon strike the first round of combat is at +1 damage.

So, its like keystone, but also useable without discipline.....

I like the Keystone Kine style anarch rush card. Anarchs need good stuff to do in order to offset the high cost of being anarch. Get rid of the burn blood part and the card would be good. The disciplined abilities should probably be better (i.e. for the duration of combat they get this ability, or the duration of the action).

Khalid1988 wrote: A good idea! At the moment I am not sure if there are any other rush cards that tap the rush target than Deep Song, which happens because the rush target becomes the acting minion (if I have understood the card right, please correct me if I'm wrong).

Sort of.

The tapping of the other vampire just happens because of the card text saying: "Enter combat with and tap a ready vampire controlled by another Methuselah." The fact that the other vampire is considered the acting minion doesn't require them to tap - the only thing about taking actions that taps you is announcing the action, per the rules:

Rulebook, 6.2.1 wrote: 6.2.1. Announce the Action

All details of the action are declared when the action is announced, including the target(s), the cost, the effects, etc. Any card required for the action is played (face up) at this time. Tap the acting minion (only ready untapped minions can take actions).

If a minion becomes (or is considered) the acting minion somehow, the only thing that causes them to tap is card text, such as is found on Mask of a Thousand Faces.