Lazarus

Lech wrote: Lady Trog also have , and she don't have (just ), yet she is , not .

And she was one of the supposed creator of the samedi, or smuggled to america, where samedi live, one way or another. Not Lazarus.

LunaSlave wrote: Lazarus, the Faithless
Harbingers of Skulls


Group 5
Independent. Whenever a Harbinger of Skulls you control successfully bleeds your prey, burn the top two cards of your prey's library. If your prey has zero cards in their library, Lazarus, the Faithless may burn 5 blood during your untap phase to oust them from the game.

The business end of the special is interesting, but this would be a very weak 11-cap.

yeah, it is a bit weak, isn't it? The original idea I had, had the burn 5 blood idea, and everytime he successfully bled your prey he made them burn the top 10 cards of their library. Wasn't sure if that'd be way too strong so I weakened it.

LunaSlave wrote: everytime he successfully bled your prey he made them burn the top 10 cards of their library. Wasn't sure if that'd be way too strong so I weakened it.

Bleed for 1, Freak Drive+Enkil Cog, bleed in prey's turn, Freak Drive, House of Sorrow on Enkil Cog, Bleed in grand-prey's turn, oust prey in your untap phase (having removed 30 cards) would likely be considered somewhat obnoxious.

Ohlmann wrote: Serpentis, I understand, but why Thanatosis ? It's not mortis, it's the samedi disc, and he really never take interest in them.

Mortis is entirely within necro in VtES.

But is Thanatosis not an off-shoot of Mortis too? Much like the Samedi are supposedly also an off-shoot of the Cappadocians. Unre has Thn, after all...

I like both of the first versions best. I don't know enough of the VtM lore to comment overmuch on the propriety of the disciplines and specials.

On Porphyrion's version:
Using a master phase action for the expanded handsize is a weak effect. Have him just burn a blood for the extra cards. I also disagree about such a supposed recluse having a title. The disciplines and the plus bleed seem fine. The combat special should work against allies, burning them.

On Molloy's version:
You ironed out most of the perceived flaws in Porphyrion's design, the minion ceases to have a title, has a combat special that is harsh on vampires but perhaps underpowered versus allies. The Stealth/Bleed special is hugely strong and was pointed as innapropriate for him, no comment on that. The diablerie immunity is really cool to have though I have no idea of the possible reasons behind it.

On LunaSlave's version:
Besides being a bit on the weak side, I don't fancy "automatic-oust" habilities much. Having him burn X cards in your prey's ash-heap to have him burn Y pool would be a totally acceptable substitute, though. Or +1 bleed for every 10 cards in the ash-heap.


Drain

I like the milling mechanic, though, sorta stuck on it, to be honest What about giving him +1 bleed and burning the top X cards of their library if he bleeds successfully, where X is the amount he successfully bleeds, or something like that?