What makes a clan strong?

You can use hag's wrinkles to move codex around (or laptop)(or camara phone)(with leather jacket for discard phase untap)(maybe even with ivory bow to discourage blocking). So if you have one of those it's like +bleed action.

Allies are not bad, minion advantage is good, especially as you can veil/cloak them and prevent damage done to them in combat.

What quietus have ? +bleed action. And that's it.

Lech wrote: What quietus have ? +bleed action. And that's it.

Or you could read my post again and see that Quietus has block fails, block deny, and true untap with attempt to block.

Well, thanatosis have +stealth that stay on vampire so also delivery. True untap is nice, but thantosis can untap you in discard phase thanks to hag's something and anyway in how many cases true untap is worth it over a wake ? Even in deflection case it's a wash (stay untapped versus deflecting after someone increased the bleed).

One could also argue that the thanatosis stealth and untap are redundant to begin with since they have inclan OBF and FOR. Most of the combat they have is not that impressive (not terrible, just not great enough to warrant any attention) and it is, after all, combat. Reanimated corpse is a great card though.

Back on the main topic, there's been a lot of discussion and trying to break the disciplines up in several tiers but in the end this is about what makes clans strong, wouldn't it be nice to see which clans people actually consider strong?

Lech wrote: True untap is nice, but thantosis can untap you in discard phase thanks to hag's something and anyway in how many cases true untap is worth it over a wake ? Even in deflection case it's a wash (stay untapped versus deflecting after someone increased the bleed).

Quite often. If you fail to block an action, you're still untapped (with a true untap) so you can block another action. In the case of a Wake, you've wasted your card if the acting minion gets by you.

echiang wrote:

Lech wrote: True untap is nice, but thantosis can untap you in discard phase thanks to hag's something and anyway in how many cases true untap is worth it over a wake ? Even in deflection case it's a wash (stay untapped versus deflecting after someone increased the bleed).

Quite often. If you fail to block an action, you're still untapped (with a true untap) so you can block another action. In the case of a Wake, you've wasted your card if the acting minion gets by you.

But Wakes have the advantage of still working on Form of Mist/Shadow Body since after combat the situation is as follows:
Acting minion is acting. Reacting minion can block and play reaction cards as untapped. FoM does give another +1 stealth, so you need an intercept. But compare that to an True Untap, which you block, tap, get circumvented and need to play a new card to block again.

Not saying that True Untap is inferior, just that it has it's disadvantages.
Also:
Anarch Troublemaker and other tap effects. Oh and Spirit Marionette.


+++EDIT+++

What makes clans strong are vampires with good disciplines (not exactly the same as what in-clan disciplines they have, but often the same thing), followed by good sect and/or clan based cards.

Toreador is a good example. is a very good discipline spread. Add good vampires, camarilla status (and thus the Prince cards) and Aching Beauty/Grand Ball.