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Poll: Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?

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26 Oct 2012 07:22 #39785 by KevinM
Replied by KevinM on topic Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?

Lemminkäinen wrote:

KevinM wrote: I know half a dozen serious Imbued players and none of them play slowly. In fact, they play faster than when they are playing with vampires.

This is sounding more and more like a local issue for you and nothing that the game or the community needs to address.

Eh, I think that it is pretty obvious that some deck types and some cards are slower than others. If an Imbued player has 40 cards on the table with some moving around, some getting tapped, some hopping to and fro from the ash heap it will certainly take me more time to assess the situation and decide on an optimal course of play.

I've just told you that my experience is that it doesn't. If in your experience it does, tell your players to play faster, and help them find ways to do so if they aren't creative enough to figure things out for themselves. Making two ash heaps as an Imbued player, continually reordering your ash heap on other player's turns as an Ashur player, playing your deck over and over on JOL, etc. Figuring out how to play faster leads to one thing and one thing only -- more VPs.

You could also institute what my old board gaming club did -- no initiating an out-of-game conversation when it is your turn; you can answer all questions but you cannot start a conversation. Believe me, that speeds things up when you make a rule that says "Shut up and play".
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
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26 Oct 2012 08:17 - 26 Oct 2012 08:20 #39787 by er-principe
Replied by er-principe on topic Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?

Izaak wrote: What we disagree with is that it's the fault of the game and/or certain cards that games tend to time out more and more. Slow players make tables time, not slow cards.


This is just totally contradiction in terms (slow play, slow card) and fail both of you or kevin to ackowledging a matter of fact which comes not even by experience or opinions (i personally judged a whole EC and played at 2 different ones over the years so my personal experience isn't just "local" but also from seeing how certain mechanics *did* actually slow the game in general) but by the sheer notion that if you're using slower car(d) you'll end up traveling (playing the round) slower no matter how you think you're fast at driving or you see other drivers going fast with their car(d)s on the road (round)
Hope the metaphor is clear enough to make you understand which notion you're failing to ackowledge; slow play is a fact, inherent longer resolutions of certain cards (both those implying interaction such politics and those not such as AT) is another fact, not opinion
Emiliano
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Last edit: 26 Oct 2012 08:20 by er-principe.

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26 Oct 2012 08:22 - 26 Oct 2012 08:35 #39788 by Boris The Blade
Replied by Boris The Blade on topic Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
Anyway, this thread is about finals. This whole discussion about slow cards vs slow players is very interesting, but it fails to address the difference between finals and round games.
Last edit: 26 Oct 2012 08:35 by Boris The Blade.

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26 Oct 2012 08:38 #39789 by Ohlmann
Replied by Ohlmann on topic Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?

Boris The Blade wrote: it fails to address the difference between finals and round games.


Part of the explanation may be that people are more stressed on the final, and a lot of people are less efficient and less concentrated when stressed.

Another one is that on the final you have less pression to go get a game win, so peoples are more likely to stall or turtle than to try to lunge.

(on round, you more or less need to get at least one GW to go to the final, and failing completely a game can still be salvaged on further round. On final, you only need to gave the most VP, and if you fail at a lunge and are ousted, you are out. It's common sense, but it does explain why people are less aggressive at finals)

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26 Oct 2012 08:54 #39790 by Pendargon
Replied by Pendargon on topic Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
Plus, let's not forget that people are often very tired in finals (at least i know i am)

4-6 hours of tense play in the 3 rounds that precede finals can and do take a toll on players. With that factor, and a pressure of finals, many players take that extra time to think things through, and make sure they are not forgetting something.
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26 Oct 2012 09:25 #39791 by Chaitan
Replied by Chaitan on topic Timeouts in Finals: Do they happen too often?
Aside from judges giving out slow-play warnings is there anything that can be done to give players incentive to play faster?

I can't think of any except the passive threat that they can't win if they don't earn a certain amount of VPs.

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