The future of V:TES

Klaital wrote: Limiting to only 6 rares would be pretty bad, as most of the time the rares are the only things people need, and what about uncommons? Your post didn't say anything about those, uncommons not allowed in the decks? I personally think people should be allowed to order whatever cards they want, the cost for printing is just the same anyway, whether its commons or rares.

If we are talking print-on-demand, then we really need to talk about something other than "rarity."

The only way we can continue to achieve "rarity" with print on demand is to enforce strict ratios of cards printed, and/or continue doing random boosters.

I would hate to see this happen. Presumably we will be paying a higher cost per card. What it will come down to is that players will buy cards to get the "rares" and then sell the "commons" to recoup some of the costs. Maybe some new players will buy cards and sell the rares to older players who don't need the "commons." Either way the game suffers, and the printer makes less money, and more cards are printed than are needed/wanted.

Less wasted cards is a good thing. Print on Demand should give players the opportunity to buy cards with no waste, no wallpaper. "Starter" decks should have ratios. It makes sense. But if "a la carte" card buying is an option, let someone buy 100 Enkil Cogs.

Starters are starters = for those who start. Beginners don't want and don't need POD: how could someone build his own deck before learning how to play? They need fixed lists and those lists need to be quite toolboxy because they are buillt for people who don't know yet what they want to play. Therefore the question of card ratios is moot: when you design a Tzimisce starter, you don't make it a Piper/War Ghoul. Not because of the number of rares, but because it is too narrow to reflect the gameplay of the clan.

Boris The Blade wrote: Starters are starters = for those who start. Beginners don't want and don't need POD: how could someone build his own deck before learning how to play? They need fixed lists and those lists need to be quite toolboxy because they are buillt for people who don't know yet what they want to play. Therefore the question of card ratios is moot: when you design a Tzimisce starter, you don't make it a Piper/War Ghoul. Not because of the number of rares, but because it is too narrow to reflect the gameplay of the clan.

I agree engtirely. But the tzimitze of all clans are very diverse, and it would be a crying shame to deny new plahers a war ghoul, breath of the dragon,horrid forms, deep songs, eyes of argus, abbots, etc. In fact, things lile abbot, eyes of argus, and deep song should be in every deck they make sense for. Virtually every animalism combat deck benefits from deepsong, and auspex wall benefits from eyes, and any sabbat blocking deck can gain crom abbot, be it tzimitze, !ventrue, !salubri, or harbingers.

But again, limitations on said starters would be hurtful. There is no reason why a tremere starter shouldnt have multiple magic of the smith, or why a ventrue starter cant have 4 freak drives, an awe, a parity shift, entrancement, 3 deflections and a perfect paragon. It makes sense, and demonstrates what the clan the newbie pays for can do. Thats part of the purpose of starters. If the giovanni and lasombra both have mind rape and preturnatural strength, cool, its within thier purview. No reason to have a !gangrel starter have 6 agent of power, 5 summon history, ankara citadel, remnant of the endless storm and sword of nuln (even if they do kinda suck, and that being their starter is a funny joke) but starters should show a new player what a clan does, or an archtype, since a wide range can potentially be selectable. Not just show them what a clan does with 6 key rares and some commons. Unless its dom obf malk94 or something that only needs that.

15 freakdrives

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Boris The Blade wrote:
But again, limitations on said starters would be hurtful. There is no reason why a tremere starter shouldnt have multiple magic of the smith, or why a ventrue starter cant have 4 freak drives, an awe, a parity shift, entrancement, 3 deflections and a perfect paragon. It makes sense, and demonstrates what the clan the newbie pays for can do. Thats part of the purpose of starters. If the giovanni and lasombra both have mind rape and preturnatural strength, cool, its within thier purview. No reason to have a !gangrel starter have 6 agent of power, 5 summon history, ankara citadel, remnant of the endless storm and sword of nuln (even if they do kinda suck, and that being their starter is a funny joke) but starters should show a new player what a clan does, or an archtype, since a wide range can potentially be selectable. Not just show them what a clan does with 6 key rares and some commons. Unless its dom obf malk94 or something that only needs that.

I agree with part of this, and disagree to a point.

If we are talking "starter" decks, 4 of any card you mentioned is fair. But should someone be able to build a starter deck with 40 Zip Guns? No. That should be reserved for a "gimmick" deck.

As mirddes said (or didn't really) 15 freak drives is too much. I remember playing in the first "Create-a-clan" tournament, run by Ben Peal. I think 75% of the clans had Fortitude for the Freak Drive.

There should be "static" starter decks for beginners. But the past few posts were talking about "custom" starters. There should be reasonable limits, and now is the time to discuss them.

mirddes wrote: 15 freakdrives

Unless you are implying the ventrue precon be maryanne blair x5 with one of each supporting ventrue in g4-4, with8x govern, 4xscouting mission,5xenchant kindred and 3x 4 th tradition with 3 golcondas, or the !gangrel be an una deck, i fail to see the practicaility. Unless you just need 15, which you can probably just order. I need 32 -40 more freak drivesmyself, 24-32 more deflections, and 24 eyes of argus, along with 18 more deep song.

But you kinda just lost me. A recap of rares for a toolboxy ventrue: daring the dawn, day op, awe, parity shift, ephor,island of yairos, mind rape, hostile tskeover, dreams of the sphinx, and first tradition.
Uncommons: freak drive x3-4, perfect paragon, entrancement, 3-4 deflections, command of the beast, judgement cam seg and 3-4 2nd tradition.
Commons: govern, bonding, seduction, conditioning, majesty , hidden strength, meat hook, cat fear, staredown, denial of aphrodities favor, target vitals, krc,con boon, political stranglehold, reins of power, bewitching oration, ventrue headquarters, voter cap, villein, blood doll, ventrue directorate assembly, force of will.

The point is, it does lots of stuff. Votes , bleeds, denies blocks, bounces, blocks with intercept,ends combat, prevents damage, and dishes out a little combat damage. Diverse.