So, what would you change in VTES?

Snodig wrote:

Mewcat wrote:

Snodig wrote:

Mewcat wrote: How do u oust anyone?

Clearly, I'm not playing weenie auspex-only decks
But I don't feel the need to pack 12 bounces, is my point.

I see. I was referring to auspex and the win con of bouncing. Take that out and mono auspex is not viable.

As far as bounce numbers, that's what u do when people play focused bleed decks.

It may be what you do, but not what I do.
I’ll usually try another route first, like heavy intercept, bleed reduction, or rush combat.
Massive bounces are boring.

And of course mono auspex can’t oust without bounces. That’s the whole idea of mono auspex...
The discipline is suited for intercept and information gathering. Now, it wouldn’t break with source material or reason to add bleed power, but you’d basically just have Dominate++, which exacerbates things.

Massive bounces are boring but certainly effective. I have experimented with lots of things and I can safely say that blocking is too unreliable without bounce. Might be a little better with pentex changes as less will be around.

I'm not advocating that auspex get bounce just that 1 card is the lynchpin.

If I were given the resources, this is what I would do:

* Cut / merge the number of clans down to 7. Then give each clan a unique discipline.
* Disciplines have 3 levels: basic, advanced, expert.
* Every vampire has a special text.
* Wider discipline spreads.
* Try to give every card a discipline cost if possible. Emphasize discipline requirements.
* Every card costs some blood or pool. Everything has a price in the WoD.
* Cards are more conditional but have more powerful effects effects and/or give bigger bonuses.
* All vampires are full art.
* Combat has three phases: Maneuver, Strike, Press. All effects fit into these phases. Resolve effects as played, with each player going back and forth until neither player plays a card (they then proceed with the next phase).


But more related to the current game:

* Produce more and better Powerbases, Havens, Hunting Grounds.
* Related to the above: Emphasize Location master cards. Thematically, we're ancient Methuselahs trying to gain more power, fulfill old grudges, take revenge on our prey, but within the game, control over territory and kine hardly matters.
* More acceleration cards to let us get vamps out faster.
* Bigger effects, more powerful effects, with emphasis on discipline combinations.
* Emphasis on Political cards that have stronger, interesting effects. More cards to interact with the vote system and referendums.
* Make every combat card fit into the Manuever, Strike, Press framework.

Mewcat wrote: What ideas to punish big bleeds do u have? With the stealth mechanic as it is big bleeds are problematic. Just easy to do.

Between bloat reduction and bleed reduction games should be about same duration. Imo games take forever cuz people want to talk about every action and just play slow.

I think it would be cool to have more creative ways to punish large pool losses or make people think of different consequences other than running their prey out of bounce.

A quietus card:
Reaction
Only usable during a bleed action that would result in the loss of pool greater than 2.
qui: Enter combat with the acting minion. If that minion not ready after this combat, the bleed action is considered unsuccessful. If that minion is ready, the bleed action is successful and no other reactions can be played.
QUI: As above, but reduce the cost of one QUI card played during the resulting combat.

Or this Chimerstry card:
Reaction
Only usable during a bleed action after blocks are declined.
chi: Reduce this bleed to 3
CHI: As above, and the acting minion takes damage equal to the amount the bleed was reduced by.

They aren't bounce or reduction and make you think about the risk/reward of making a big bleed. I wouldn't even mind if these effects were available as masters or disciplineless cards because big bleed is too easy and the only real answer is bounce.

DJHedgehog wrote: I think it would be cool to have more creative ways to punish large pool losses or make people think of different consequences other than running their prey out of bounce.

They aren't bounce or reduction and make you think about the risk/reward of making a big bleed. I wouldn't even mind if these effects were available as masters or disciplineless cards because big bleed is too easy and the only real answer is bounce.

Not bad ideas though prolly need some polish.

Bounce really only forces me to bleed harder and more often and isn't a particularly well integrated counter strategy although it may seem so on the surface. Bounce is effective against sporadic bleed intensity but since one can have 4 or 5 minions doing it every turn for large amounts you would need to play utterly ridiculous amounts to stop it.

Additionally, if I am bleeding hard all the time, I don't much care if u bounce some of them for several reasons: 1) damage on next vp is fine to me, 2) you prolly aren't going forward enough to threaten an oust anyway, 3) the bounce doesn't go anywhere if I don't bleed, 4) even if u oust prey that is only 6 pool which is one bleed so who cares.

Would be cool to introduce some proper risk vs reward into bleeding in lieu of toning bleeds down.

I would change transfers to start from 2 instead of 1. It would make the start of the game faster and smoothen the randomness of seating order. After a discussion with other veteran level players, the only type of decks which don’t benefit that are Girls... decks (no minions on the table is good).


Another change would be the cost of taking a new vampire from the crypt. Now the cost is 4 transfers and 1 pool. I would change it to use your whole influence phase and 1 pool (similar to how we play events). With a bad crypt draw, even the first player could draw a new card on turn 1.

These are excellent ideas i would love to see, and something i have thought about as well.