How to make Potence better?

Well, you should know, Finnish Politics and all!

Compare it to 44 magnum, that does out desired amount of damage per strike and gets you to desired range WHILE not going away in torpor and not removing blood from this vampire you plainly intend to be in combat.

Compare it to .44 magnum, and you see that Heroic Might is more specialized, and Preternatural is the more generic one:

Cost 1 instead of 2 . You can't Taste of Vitae back .
+2 stealth action instead of a generic +1 stealth equip action.
Ramps up your strength to 3 instead of the flat 2 damage from the gun.

The gun can be drawn from your sleeve, and does provide the manouver, but Preternatural is actually fair game per balance. Of course the manouver is probably the best thing about the gun, but with such a cost compared to Preternatural, it's fair game. Don't bring your biceps to a gun fight, without a plan at least.

The gun does not require an action, and provide 2 to 0, the PS require action and provide 3 to 1. Cost 1 to 2, one require superior discipline one require nothing. It's actually not a fair game that disciplineless card is such powerful, and as i said before: guns shouldn't provide any flexible maneuver (they should change starting range to long if the user is aware, ie, if he blocked or is acting, not when he is ambushed).

All quite valid from Lech(Iget it, you hate 44 magnum, but you agree that potence gets screwed when compared to it) and Kraus (I dont care that I paid extra for HMs specialized stuff, I paid 3 very valuable blood and dont want one measly agg from ivory bow to screw that up)

An important thing about Vtes is that much balance is existant by the level of utility provided by certain staples;
Govern, deflection, eyes of argus, deep song, taste of vitae, trap, freak drive, psyche, majesty, earth meld, second tradition, target vitals, grapple, Enkil Cog, ivory bow, bowl of convergence, crows, conditioning, AI, 44, heart of cheating, prevent-n-press fortitude, daring the dawn, telepathic Misdirection, villein, parity shift, voter captivation, kine resources contested...
Many key cards interact with one another, and that interaction is key to many parts of the global metagame. Cards that break the game on a larger level have been errattad or banned (Anthelios, LB. Villein) but Staples of the game aren't destined for departure, they are the standard. So, strong niche cards or decent but more accessible cards are logical trumps, Touch of Clarity is Niche compared to deflection and voter cap, but stops them. Sirens Lure, nose of the hound, sense death are all less restrictive or more rewording rushes(sirens lure just isn't used as one often) than deep song, but aren't also a computer hacking and aren't as accessible.
So to make potence better, it needs its source of damage to be on par with 44, but due to cost and inability to play in combat, its 2 permanent boosts aren't there. I use them, dont get me wrong, and will be buying whatever PS is reprinted in so I can leave decks together, but HM is super expensive (for the minion, I dont need to buy any more) for most uses.
It REALLY doesn't help that the 2 best combat cards in the game are Target Vitals and Taste of Vitae, with the third being WWS. 2 of them do what potence does, but without needing potence, and Taste makes whoever's hitting you gain back part of what potence did to them.
A side note: potence also let's you jump, AFAIR, so manuevers to close shouldn't be so hard to come by.
If anyone is set up for V5 previews, they may know if it's still going to be true, last I remember they said celerity will follow the different power per dot setup now, but since potence and fortitude never enabled crazy stupid stuff like Celerity (ah, city Gangrel, who couldn't you sneak up on and burn...) I'm not sure if those will change .

ReverendRevolver wrote: If anyone is set up for V5 previews, they may know if it's still going to be true, last I remember they said celerity will follow the different power per dot setup now, but since potence and fortitude never enabled crazy stupid stuff like Celerity (ah, city Gangrel, who couldn't you sneak up on and burn...) I'm not sure if those will change .

I watched a review of V5 that said Potence, Fortitude, and Celerity all have per dot powers now, and they seemed to imply there being multiple per dot powers in each discipline you could choose to take. So your level 1 Potence ability could be different from your buddy's level 1 Potence ability, but of comparable power.

Robert Scythe wrote:
Doesn't make much sense for your minion to block mine while attempting to put a fang back in my buddy's mouth or rescue someone from torpor across the table and then I transport said minion to one of your locations that gets torn to shreds whilst fighting. At least with the action being directed at the meth with a location the combat could be happening there. Plus potence can use a rush card.

The pool damage from Collateral Damage would be destruction of property within [the city] or your prey choosing a location they control implies the combat occurred at that location (or that said location suffered significant collateral damage.) You could also think of generic pool damage like violations to the Masquerade. The location was never a target, it just happened to get caught in the cross-fire.

As far as Potence could use a rush card, I agree but I have to wonder why Harass does not benefit from Potence? Same goes for Ambush () and Bum's Rush (). Here are cards that have an OK effect, but they could easily check to see if the acting vampire has a relevant discipline, and then reward that vampire with bonus effects.

Harass
Action
Enter combat with a vampire who has 3 or less blood, or with a locked minion. This acting minion gets 1 optional press, only usable to continue combat, during that combat.
As above, but a vampire who has 5 or less blood.
As above, and if the minion is not already locked, lock that minion.

ReverendRevolver wrote: All quite valid from Lech(Iget it, you hate 44 magnum,

I even have it in my signature, it's full blown hate and loathing!

ReverendRevolver wrote: but you agree that potence gets screwed when compared to it) and Kraus (I dont care that I paid extra for HMs specialized stuff, I paid 3 very valuable blood and dont want one measly agg from ivory bow to screw that up)

Sure, overall design of potence cards are bit below what you expect from discipline.

ReverendRevolver wrote: An important thing about Vtes is that much balance is existant by the level of utility provided by certain staples;
Govern, deflection, eyes of argus, deep song, taste of vitae, trap, freak drive, psyche, majesty, earth meld, second tradition, target vitals, grapple, Enkil Cog, ivory bow, bowl of convergence, crows, conditioning, AI, 44, heart of cheating, prevent-n-press fortitude, daring the dawn, telepathic Misdirection, villein, parity shift, voter captivation, kine resources contested...

Problem is, some of those cards are on disciplines that do good stuff outside of combat (carrion crows) so their power in combat is uncalled for.

ReverendRevolver wrote: Many key cards interact with one another, and that interaction is key to many parts of the global metagame. Cards that break the game on a larger level have been errattad or banned (Anthelios, LB. Villein) but Staples of the game aren't destined for departure, they are the standard. So, strong niche cards or decent but more accessible cards are logical trumps, Touch of Clarity is Niche compared to deflection and voter cap, but stops them. Sirens Lure, nose of the hound, sense death are all less restrictive or more rewording rushes(sirens lure just isn't used as one often) than deep song, but aren't also a computer hacking and aren't as accessible.
So to make potence better, it needs its source of damage to be on par with 44, but due to cost and inability to play in combat, its 2 permanent boosts aren't there. I use them, dont get me wrong, and will be buying whatever PS is reprinted in so I can leave decks together, but HM is super expensive (for the minion, I dont need to buy any more) for most uses.
It REALLY doesn't help that the 2 best combat cards in the game are Target Vitals and Taste of Vitae, with the third being WWS. 2 of them do what potence does, but without needing potence, and Taste makes whoever's hitting you gain back part of what potence did to them.

If you don't want to nerf .44, nerf concealed weapon which enable it (limit it to 1 pool weapons).

ReverendRevolver wrote: A side note: potence also let's you jump, AFAIR, so manuevers to close shouldn't be so hard to come by.
If anyone is set up for V5 previews, they may know if it's still going to be true, last I remember they said celerity will follow the different power per dot setup now, but since potence and fortitude never enabled crazy stupid stuff like Celerity (ah, city Gangrel, who couldn't you sneak up on and burn...) I'm not sure if those will change .

I wouldn't mind once each combat manouver like:

Mighty Leap

A minion may play only one Mighty Leap each round of combat.
Maneuver Do not replace until after combat.
Maneuver, first hand damage or melee weapon strike this round deal +1 damage.
Burn 1 blood to get +1 stealth.