List of cards to ban

elotar wrote: O! Good point! Heart will go off the list. Sphinx too?

Indeed. I see Sphinx contested or threatened with contesting in, like, every single game I play around here. Which makes it a lot less good.

bakija wrote: Deflection is a bleed bouce. I will nefer suggest to ban a bleed bounce

If Dominate is less good, you don't need bleed bounce so much. And Deflection is sooooooo good that it makes all other bleed defense seem pointless.

Again, I'm not saying I actually want to see Dominate banned. But there is a lot of solid theory behind the idea of hypothetically rebooting the game (again, just in theory) and making Dominate much less good. Which would make the game much more good.

Conditioning is good, but we have Aire of Elation, but I've never heared any complains about evil toreador bleeders.

If you aren't the Toreador, Aire isn't particularly good. If you are the Toreador, you have a very limited delivery system (i.e. no good stealth). And Aire doesn't also come with Govern and Deflection.

bakija wrote: I don't know what this means. Am I an android from a bleak dystopian future where love is illegal?

Well, obviously.

I think they did a good job getting rid of the cards that needed to be removed for tournament play. You can always choose to limit your playgroup if most agree. The only card I think needs visited is Villein. I think people love it and don't want to consider it. It was made to give some balance to Minion Tap. They made it a trifle to make it more appealing than minion tap and made it cost greater pool to use those cards later in the game. They needed to make it balanced as well since it was a trifle minion tap that players could use on everyone of their minions without penalty so they made you take a minimum of 2 blood. However the poor ruling that they could be used to take one or no blood off a minion if that is all they had. That is a minion tap. New players can easily buy minion taps to enjoy competitive games. The card if played like it is written is still great.

For the record, I am against "banning" any card. I believe almost anything can have its card text adjusted to make it playable for the game. However, if you want a card for this list that should be banned, Target Vitals would be it. It fits categories 1, 2, 3 and 6. Category 6 being, I hate the card.

I don't like Vessel or Villein because they detract from one of VTES's strengths in that old cards and new cards can be used together. Villein could probably be fixed by changing the anti MT to "If any number of Villein(s) are in play Minion Tap cards cost 1 additional pool." I'd still argue that if I had a stack of Villeins and a stack of MT most decks would include the Villeins, but at least the MT cards aren't rendered completely obsolete.

Parity Shift is broken, could be fixed easily by "Only 1 parity shift can be played in the game" or starting the card text with "If your prey" instead of "Choose a methuselah" which until I read this thread is what I thought the card said (I don't get to play many multiplayer games unfortunately). I would say it's rare enough that it probably doesn't need banning, but I guess at tournaments you tend to get players who have an unreasonable number of cards, so this argument doesn't hold much water.

I'm thinking that dominate will become much less good without govern.

bakija wrote: If Dominate is less good, you don't need bleed bounce so much. And Deflection is sooooooo good that it makes all other bleed defense seem pointless.

I'm not agreeing with you here. Maybe we got different meta (much less bleed), but I found versality of T. misdirections or murmurs better then deflection in some decks.