Proxies and the VEKN

I've just realised I've paraphrased Jeff/Adonai/TheLasombra in essence.

Please see his post and consider the difference between a point of view, and demonstrable reality.

In friendly games we often allow proxies so people can see if the deck is worth buying the cards. I can see why many newer players would like more options. But a problem with a game that is going out of print is getting new players and keeping them. I know some players who dedicated more resources seem to have some advantage, but they did spend the money. There are some compromises. One such compromise is a 4 card limit. Also you could play with no duplicates at all. In general for tournaments I think proxy cards are not not necessary.

I read where people also would like to see some revisions. I am against banning cards. The ones that were banned made sense. There are a few cards I would like to see revised. Villein is one. If the card is played as it reads on the card, then Minion Taps would be more competitive and there are a lot more of them for new players since Villeins are expensive. The card is still good, the fact it is a trifle makes up for the fact you must have at least 2 blood on a vampire to use it.

There are a lot of strong decks made from common cards. Princes should try and have a couple of them on hand to show new players.

Amenophobis wrote: You really think new players are likely to stick to VTES if commons cost more than 10 USD?

This is and always has been moot. There are ten-thousand tier1 decks that don't need [CARDNAME].


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KevinM wrote:

Amenophobis wrote: You really think new players are likely to stick to VTES if commons cost more than 10 USD?

This is and always has been moot. There are ten-thousand tier1 decks that don't need [CARDNAME].

Well, following that logic, there is no card that is needed. And still, commons for more than 10 USD? If I was a noob and looking for those commons, I'd probably just quit.

The big problem the torpor of VTES caused is, that some highly desired cards from very recent sets are nearly impossible to get.

And no, I don't want to discuss design-fumbles like no Camarilla Vitae Slave and no Shadow Twin and no Arms of the Abyss in the Lasombra/Kiaysid starters... Let's leave that for another thread.

Amenophobis wrote: Well, following that logic, there is no card that is needed. And still, commons for more than 10 USD? If I was a noob and looking for those commons, I'd probably just quit.

It's not as though all commons cost ten dollars. Newer players are going to pass up Ashur Tablets due to their cost, and almost certainly not miss their absence in the slightest. As much as it gets a ton of good press, that card is totally a specialist card, which new players don't need as much as they need generalist cards. Fortunately, most generalist cards are still very cheap and easy to get; I'm much more concerned about there not being enough cheap Deflections in the world than I am about cheap Ashur Tablets.

Amenophobis wrote: The big problem the torpor of VTES caused is, that some highly desired cards from very recent sets are nearly impossible to get.

That would be a problem if "highly desired" equaled "necessary to play the game," but fortunately those two terms are far from synonomous.

My biggest worry for new players is when there are no longer starters for sale anywhere. That's much more likely to bar new entry than anything on the secondary market.

Kushiel wrote: That would be a problem if "highly desired" equaled "necessary to play the game," but fortunately those two terms are far from synonomous.

I thing that Villein is necessary to play the game. Withought Villein you can play swarm decks only. Withouth Villein you have big disadvantage with trying play big capacity deck. There is no alernative for Villein in big capacity deck.