Una Freak Drive

Ashur wrote: I don´t agree. All these decks interact with the table. The Una-deck just "Anyone got a Pentex/DI? No? Then watch me play for 20 minutes!" That is boring/annoying. Do you understand the difference?

From the times I encountered one on JOL, once they get that 20min tool-up turn the Una deck is particularly 'trumpy' since it has removed the 'library risk' from its game.

I suppose that is another 'un-fun' aspect for other players. They recognise that the Turbo/Una/etc deck has now removed large chunks of their risk because they have played the vast majority of their cards in the way they wanted them played. It loads all of the risk into the first handful of turns, and then dwindles the rest to nothing.

@kushiel: mine uses around 30 to 33 freak drives in a 90 card deck. Even with the use of 10 to 12 freak drives in one turn i have only used at most 10mins in one turn. Im pretty used to it and so are my other co players they know the only actions of significance are Heart of the City, guns or perm. bleed/intercept retainers. They dont bother blocking blessing of chaos and resilient mind.
As juggernaut pointed out after a few turns like that you would already have spent the majority of your freak drives.
Actually imbued decks take longer if they have a stack of powers and people read the powers

blackday wrote: Actually imbued decks take longer if they have a stack of powers and people read the powers

True, but they are still minions that can be interacted with during several turns. They can be outbled etc. Una (and this Journal of Hrorsh BS) is just stupid.

Ashur wrote: I don´t agree. All these decks interact with the table. The Una-deck just "Anyone got a Pentex/DI? No? Then watch me play for 20 minutes!" That is boring/annoying. Do you understand the difference?

I understand perfectly, but they annoy the hell of people through other means – specifically, that unless you have a way to deal with combat, you don't get to play.

And really? Weenie computer hacking deck lets the first prey interact? This, of course, depends on the deck, but more often than not, with big caps, they pull out one vampire and proceed to be deceased.

And furthermore, Una decks are susceptible to Pentex, DI, any ONE intercept, Una being rushed before the first tooling-up (yeah, because it takes four turns to actually do anything, remember? 9 cap takes 3 turns to come out, then another where it does something) and sometimes even after that.

Ashur, I would like to point to something you said some posts before:

Ashur wrote: Turbo decks are boring. They are played mainly by people who should play Magic instead of Vtes.

In turn, I say to you that if you only want interaction between minions, Pokémon is the way to go.

Banning or nerfing anything (be it cards or mechanics) because it "is just stupid" doesn't seem like a good policy.

blackday wrote: James specifically said that the discussion he's looking for doesn't take the power level of the deck into account, though.

Yeah, but the win rate is relevant for how much you see it. That's the only reason I mentioned it.

Una deck is not stupid. I even would say that existance of such decks is very important for the game.

Sérgio wrote: I understand perfectly,

No you don´t. Nothing in the rest of your comments tells me you understand. I have no idea why you say you understand perfectly, when you don´t understand at all!

Sérgio wrote: but they annoy the hell of people through other means – specifically, that unless you have a way to deal with combat, you don't get to play.

Combat is a classic concept with minions interacting with minions. Smart players play some combat defense in almost every deck, and if you get into trouble other players can help you, for example by rescuing your vamps from torpor. Minions and players interact, cards are played, deals are made, it´s exciting and everyone is having a good time.

Sérgio wrote: And really? Weenie computer hacking deck lets the first prey interact? This, of course, depends on the deck, but more often than not, with big caps, they pull out one vampire and proceed to be deceased.

SAY WHAT?! What is this “weenie computer hacking”? Why can´t you just bounce a couple of those stealthed bleeds (thanks!) and/or just Tap/Villein you´re bigcap? Or block or rush down those weenies? I can´t remember ever being bled out by any “weenie computer hacking”-deck. Never seen one in a final either.

Still, it is minions interacting. Players playing the game, instead of just one player.

Sérgio wrote: In turn, I say to you that if you only want interaction between minions, Pokémon is the way to go.

Why? I´m serious in my recommendation – try MtG if you like combo-decks, shuffling, turn one kills, etc. I´m offended when who tell me to play some childrens game.

Vtes is a game about players and minions interacting – it has always been an should always be, IMHO. When someone asks me about Vtes, I tell them “it´s about vampires, taking actions, bleeding, voting, blocking, etc”, I don´t tell them “It´s a game where, if you are unlucky, one player plays and the others look at him/her playing”. That is just focked up, against the spirit of the game.

Sérgio wrote: Banning or nerfing anything (be it cards or mechanics) because it "is just stupid" doesn't seem like a good policy.

I agree to disagree. I have explained this now. I have no idea why someone things Una (and it´s likes) is fun, or “needed” in Vtes in some way.