Balancing Ashur Tablets

Ive had a Gisella Harden, the Winnower kindred spirits/trochomancy half built for awhile, incase Girls mmpa get stupid popular again. I also had a Santaleous wall with 4XSantaleous and 3X Asguresh, where I splashed fragmentand trochomancy.

Never got to use it against girls decks though.

ReverendRevolver wrote: Ive had a Gisella Harden, the Winnower kindred spirits/trochomancy half built for awhile, incase Girls mmpa get stupid popular again. I also had a Santaleous wall with 4XSantaleous and 3X Asguresh, where I splashed fragmentand trochomancy.

Never got to use it against girls decks though.

At one moment there were so many Ashur decks that i used to run in one or two of them every game. that forced me to build anti-ashur DEM bleed running trochonacies with Sargon's fragment... bleed you cross table with kindred spirits just inferior for 1 is enough. and before bounce i will increase bleed by inferior necromancy version on trochomancy. why i don't want more bleed? because this way i remove 13 cards not only 7...
after few games ashur decks started to oust me cross table if possible...

Asnek wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote: Ive had a Gisella Harden, the Winnower kindred spirits/trochomancy half built for awhile, incase Girls mmpa get stupid popular again. I also had a Santaleous wall with 4XSantaleous and 3X Asguresh, where I splashed fragmentand trochomancy.

Never got to use it against girls decks though.

At one moment there were so many Ashur decks that i used to run in one or two of them every game. that forced me to build anti-ashur DEM bleed running trochonacies with Sargon's fragment... bleed you cross table with kindred spirits just inferior for 1 is enough. and before bounce i will increase bleed by inferior necromancy version on trochomancy. why i don't want more bleed? because this way i remove 13 cards not only 7...
after few games ashur decks started to oust me cross table if possible...

Ha! That showed them alright!

Jussi wrote:

Asnek wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote: Ive had a Gisella Harden, the Winnower kindred spirits/trochomancy half built for awhile, incase Girls mmpa get stupid popular again. I also had a Santaleous wall with 4XSantaleous and 3X Asguresh, where I splashed fragmentand trochomancy.

Never got to use it against girls decks though.

At one moment there were so many Ashur decks that i used to run in one or two of them every game. that forced me to build anti-ashur DEM bleed running trochonacies with Sargon's fragment... bleed you cross table with kindred spirits just inferior for 1 is enough. and before bounce i will increase bleed by inferior necromancy version on trochomancy. why i don't want more bleed? because this way i remove 13 cards not only 7...
after few games ashur decks started to oust me cross table if possible...

Ha! That showed them alright!

Its all salt. There is no immidiate strategic advantage to ousting crosstable. Or backwards. Vp is to the left. Everyone has probably convinced a new player to go backwards with some KS bleeds, but bottomline is you are playing a deck that does something other than try to directly win.

So, why do it? The Santaleous deck, like many walls, wins in the "eventually" timeframe. So, stopping masters, gaining pool, shooting up Aksynia are all ways to overcome the fact that by lategame most decks have 10 ish pool but girls have 30 something.

Gisella deck is unfinished because a sabbat toolbox with dem and fortitude isnt as good as tons of other stuff (could look at under siege now i guess). If you cockroaxh because nobody else can kill the girls deck, awesome. He trouble is being a commodity that depends on girls decks or imbued scaring a table means those decks have to be there to run "right"

Still says something that players build decks to kill the poisonous archetype being discussed.

Every "tier 1" deck, like Girls, Speed Shamblers, and many others are rotten hard to oust. Girls deck does not have much ability to protect pool other than Aksinya. Hence, that deck needs to generate pool like hell to survive.

All good decks need means to survive and to oust. Things like delivery mechanism (stealth, combat) or defense mechanism like bleed redirection, pool gain, intercept support the initial concept.

I've played in tables where all decks are variants of different strong archetypes. Sometimes table timeouts, but often there are ousts and game wins. And sometimes decks that are not of those variants manage to win. So...

V:tES as a game is more often a game of player against player rather than deck against deck.

Jussi wrote: Every "tier 1" deck, like Girls, Speed Shamblers, and many others are rotten hard to oust. Girls deck does not have much ability to protect pool other than Aksinya. Hence, that deck needs to generate pool like hell to survive.

All good decks need means to survive and to oust. Things like delivery mechanism (stealth, combat) or defense mechanism like bleed redirection, pool gain, intercept support the initial concept.

I've played in tables where all decks are variants of different strong archetypes. Sometimes table timeouts, but often there are ousts and game wins. And sometimes decks that are not of those variants manage to win. So...

V:tES as a game is more often a game of player against player rather than deck against deck.

As it should be. But some decks create large imbalances that make the player less important than the deck. Thats the primary complaint I hear with Una decks, and my gripe with girls mmpa. A few years back at a WoN tournament, a player was drunk to the point of not walking safely, and still made final table with a girls deck. You have to have a loose grasp of what you are doing in a vaccuum, and interaction matters substantially less.

Its the opposite of alot of Jay Kristoffs older decks, like gargoyles and Anatole variants. Hes built decks anyone couod win with as well, but some stuff, like his !gangrel, are tailored to his playstyle and many players wouldnt be able to win a table, let alone a tournament with them.

So, I still feel the point of this thread is "Ashurs with girls style mmpa is a problem, and we all have opinions on the extent"