How do you value archbishops and prisci?

KevinM wrote: Papillon isn't an Archbishop card.

The discussion is about Priscus and Archbishops, not titled vampires.

Papillon can be played while you have a ready Archbishop, but not while you have a ready Priscus. So, it is relevant to the conversation as a card that draws a contrast.

With two ready vampires, here is how I would prioritize:

1) 1x Archbishop and 1x Priscus
2) 2x Archbishop
3) 2x Priscus

It is also relevant how those titles are gained. Any random Sabbat vampire can call a political action to become an Archbishop of a city. Many Pander have done so with great success. But becoming a Priscus requires another vampire to take the Investiture political action. Since it is easier to become an Archbishop, that title does gain a slight advantage in this respect.

Jeff Kuta wrote: With two ready vampires, here is how I would prioritize:

1) 1x Archbishop and 1x Priscus
2) 2x Archbishop
3) 2x Priscus

-I agree.

- Papillon is cool. Only an archbishop can play it, but so can princes and (Gasp!) anarch barons. The votes available to these two other types of city titles devalue Papillon as an argument for the value of archbishops, IMHO.

- I love Sabbat. I love the religious titles and flavor of the sabbat. I like to use votes. However, in the end, Camarilla can play Parity Shift, Independent can play Reckless Agitation, and Daughters can play Lily Prelude. If I could play a vote that could be different than these but help me oust with the same effectiveness, I would love to have any of these wonderful titles in play. (Where is Bakija when you need him?) For that matter, It would help to have any card that would make the Archbishop and/or Priscus titles stand out in their own way (I'd be drawn like a moth to the flame). The laibon have No Secrets at least (the Kohlo cards are pretty good too).

TorranceCircle wrote: - Papillon is cool. Only an archbishop can play it, but so can princes and (Gasp!) anarch barons. The votes available to these two other types of city titles devalue Papillon as an argument for the value of archbishops, IMHO.

Why ? Because others can play it too ? Lets assume that archbishops can play Parity Shift (sic!). Would you say "but so can princes play it, and they have 2nd tradition, so it devalue PS as an argument for the value of archbishops". I don't think so.

I agree that papillon is an argument for prefering archbishop over priscus.

And so, I agree that in some cases, archbishop are better than priscii. For example, I think that Meshenka would love to have 2 additional bloods a turn (without the steal possibility of the Rack) and Lazverinus would be sad without it.

But those decks are star decks which rely on the title only for the card it allows and the number of vote provided is more a side effect (even if it is a cool one). For voting deck, everything else identical, I would go every day for 3/4 prisci in my crypt (in order to have a good chance of drawing 1 of them) and the rest as archbishop. And if I want it, I would still play 1 copy of Papillon and I would have a good chance of being able to play it.

With such a wide range of options, will you be coming up against other Prisci? More than likely not. That's a block of 3 votes you control most of the time on vampires easier to get out than a cardinal.

Sabbat sort of have it easy. Cardinal benediction is huge. If someone is going straight KRC's or other nice generic voting srats, Sabbat are better off than Camarilla. You don't get the Hospitality or Domain, but there are other avenues for that.

Is there a card to make a vamp a Priscus? I can't seem to recall one.

Could be an idea for a nice promo card in the future.