First Tradition and Unlock Phase

Ankha wrote:

Snodig wrote:

Ankha wrote:

Hakuron wrote: Well, they still stack, do they not? 3 copies of First Traditions in play mean you have to burn 6 pool in order to take your turn, or am I mistaken?

Yes. When you would take your turn, you have 3 effects to handle:
- FT 1 asks you if you want to skip your turn or not
- FT 2 asks you if you want to skip your turn or not
- FT 3 asks you if you want to skip your turn or not

If you answer 3 times "if want to take my turn", then you take you turn, and you must pay 6 pool since there are 3 FT.
As soon as you answer "no, I want to skip my turn", you skip your turn and proceed with the next player's turn.

Does that mean each skip counts towards only one of the FTs? Can you choose which one?
Burning pool affects all at once, or 2 per FT?

Each skip do count towards ALL FT.

groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/19Ys4rdQPQw/bijoNa8Z8FsJ

This is very confiusing for me. Can you explain how this works timing wise.

The timeline is linear and the effect of one has to be completed before another trigger. So how does this works.

Becouse I see it like that.

If the first one is trigger you choose to skip there is no trigger condition for other two to work. Vtes doesn't have a stack as MTG so the other 2 don't have trigger condition, because there is no turn to skip

And I have another question. If there are 3 on the table and you said that all trigger. Isn't it an actual skipping virtually 3 turns because of 3 triggers of turn end ? So they all burn

And what happens if you have two and first you burn than you skip ?

Ankha wrote: See
groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/GZZJjzAeuxU/HtZKyNDKiOAJ

and

groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/lTdhrKTWK5Q/rm6Arf9nEioJ

I'm sorry Aakha this doesn't answer fully my questions. Because this answers consider only one trigger of FT:M per turn and not 2 or more in the same time.

Maybe I will rephrase my questions:

- How do you resolve 2 or more independent triggers as one group trigger in one turn if they have effect that are in conflict.

You said in your example that all 3 copies need answer (aka. they trigger)

And that that answers are treated as one group effect. But what about a situation in with you answer differently to each copy. For example

1: skip
2: brun
3: skip

What group effect you will have. Do you have the turn or not.


The second one I think i understand after reading this links:

- How those triggering every copy works with checking condition in relation with each other

As abow we need 3 answers (triggers)

The result was skip. There was one group effect. But each copy of the card skipped a turn. Do they check each other effects or not. By the answer you give my I think not and there is no relation of card effects with the same name(every card is individual),they don't check each others triggers correct ?

EDIT:

I was thinking more about this and i think I got it. First of all the decision is to get a turn or not. berning 2 pool is an effect. So the timing is like this.(I think)

1. First FT:M triggers if you skip. Then no other is triggered but because there was a turn skip, all of them get a time counter

2. First FT:M trigger you decide to have a turn. Then the other triggers and you decide, if you say skip. Nothing happens turns end all of FT:M get a counter

And Finally you can decide to have a turn on each of them and then turn starts, you burn pool in unlock for each triggered FT:M

Correct ? (But this kind of timing indicates existence of stack)

Tadori wrote: And that that answers are treated as one group effect. But what about a situation in with you answer differently to each copy. For example

1: skip
2: brun
3: skip

Not how the card works. First Tradition has two distinct effects that happen at different times:
1) Players can choose to skip their turn.
2) Players burn 2 pool during their untap phase.

The two effects are not linked logically, only temporally. For effect number 1, the player has only 1 turn to skip, so only 1 opportunity to make a decision no matter how First Tradition are in play. If the player decides to take his turn, then he has an untap phase with all that entails. The second effect of each First Tradition triggers in the exact same way as each Anarch Revolt or Smiling Jack would trigger.

This is like watching a movie about time travel. Terminator handled it best. The flavor text on first tradition should be "I dont know. I didn't build the thing".

When I would begin turn I skip turn so I never would have begun turn so I cant skip turn etc

Cant we just have at the beginning of phase contrasted with during phase. Using timing windows not defined in the rule book should be avoided at all costs even going so far as banning cards that dont fit.

Mewcat wrote: This is like watching a movie about time travel. Terminator handled it best. The flavor text on first tradition should be "I dont know. I didn't build the thing".

When I would begin turn I skip turn so I never would have begun turn so I cant skip turn etc

Cant we just have at the beginning of phase contrasted with during phase. Using timing windows not defined in the rule book should be avoided at all costs even going so far as banning cards that dont fit.

Well, I mean, if we started banning everything that did not fit what’s included in the rulebook, half the game would be banned. Probably better to update the rule book to describe what “would” and “is about to” on card text actually means in terms of timing.