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Rules Team Rulings - RTR 11/05/2018
24 May 2018 09:43 #87423
by Lönkka
And not in that intuitive way.
NC, Finland
Replied by Lönkka on topic Rules Team Rulings - RTR 11/05/2018
Totally changes how these vamps functioned before (anarch vise).Ankha wrote:
Why?Lönkka wrote: What a lovely can of worms! :/
And not in that intuitive way.
NC, Finland
Finnish 
Politics!
Politics!
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24 May 2018 12:46 - 24 May 2018 12:55 #87433
by Ankha
What Boris quote as unintuitive has been there long before Anarch becomes a sect on its own: if I control an Advanced vampire who is Independent, and merge it with a base vampire who is Camarilla, does it change sect?
The answer is no. Is it unintuitive? I don't think so, since the Advanced version is the most advanced version, so it must supersede the base version.
If the Advanced vampire has changed sect in the meantime, there is no reason why the base version would suddenly change the sect (THAT would be unintuitive).
Otherwise, it works exactly the same way as before: a base Anarch vampire who merges into a Sabbat used to lose its Anarch status before, because changing sect causes the anarch to go.
And an advanced vampire who had become Anarch would have kept his anarch status when merging with a base version, unless the MERGED text states otherwise (another sect)
If you get used to the idea that Anarch is a sect, it's not unintuitive (replace "Anarch" by "Camarilla" for instance).
Replied by Ankha on topic Rules Team Rulings - RTR 11/05/2018
Correct. Boris' example illustrate the fact that players tend to forget that the anarch counter goes away when the vampire changes sect. That should no longer be the case.Boris The Blade wrote:
That should not be a problem, because all cards that make anarch counters should already be stating that the counter burns if the vampire changes sect. In case it is missing on some cards, it might be good to lift that point from individual cards to the core rules, because it is really just saying that sect counters follow the general rules of sects.Bloodartist wrote: It is however somewhat unintuitive since first we have counter placed on a vampire that overrules the card text (anarch counter says that this vampire is now an anarch instead of what is printed on the vampire), then we have card text overruling said counter (merged vampire is now independent instead of being an anarch).
What Boris quote as unintuitive has been there long before Anarch becomes a sect on its own: if I control an Advanced vampire who is Independent, and merge it with a base vampire who is Camarilla, does it change sect?
The answer is no. Is it unintuitive? I don't think so, since the Advanced version is the most advanced version, so it must supersede the base version.
If the Advanced vampire has changed sect in the meantime, there is no reason why the base version would suddenly change the sect (THAT would be unintuitive).
Only if the advanced (or merged) vampire is Independent.Lönkka wrote:
Totally changes how these vamps functioned before (anarch vise).Ankha wrote:
Why?Lönkka wrote: What a lovely can of worms! :/
And not in that intuitive way.
Otherwise, it works exactly the same way as before: a base Anarch vampire who merges into a Sabbat used to lose its Anarch status before, because changing sect causes the anarch to go.
And an advanced vampire who had become Anarch would have kept his anarch status when merging with a base version, unless the MERGED text states otherwise (another sect)
If you get used to the idea that Anarch is a sect, it's not unintuitive (replace "Anarch" by "Camarilla" for instance).
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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24 May 2018 14:45 #87441
by Sambomb
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
Replied by Sambomb on topic Rules Team Rulings - RTR 11/05/2018
advanced / merged independent vampires that is anarch should be able to keep the anarch sect when merging to follow "Effects that would affect (or ignore) Independent vampires now affect (or ignore) Independent and Anarch vampires:"
Maybe a keyword to avoid "Independent or Anarch" can help, maybe sectless.
Sectless vampires inherit the independent or Anarch sect when needed.
Banner of Neutrality
Requires an Sectless vampire. Only usable when a Camarilla or Sabbat vampire is bleeding you.
Reduce the bleed amount by 1.
Community Justice
+1 stealth action. Requires an Sectless vampire.
Burn a vampire who has diablerized a vampire of the same clan as this acting vampire since your last turn.
Exclusion Principle
Successful referendum means each Methuselah gains 1 pool for each ready Sectless vampire he or she controls.
Free States Rant
Requires an Sectless vampire.
Allocate X points among one or more ready vampires, where X is half this acting vampire's capacity rounded up. No 4 or more points can be allocated to each vampire. Successful referendum means each vampire burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this referendum, non-priscus titles are worth 1 less vote each, priscus title is worth 1 less ballot, and burning the Edge is worth 1 additional vote.
Haqim's Law: Judgment
Contract. Trifle.
Lock a ready Sectless Assamite you control to put this card on a younger vampire. Every Independent or Anarch Assamite is considered chosen for this contract. Any Sectless Assamite can enter combat with the attached vampire as a +1 stealth action.
Reckless Agitation
Requires an Sectless vampire with capacity 5 or more.
Allocate 6 points among two or more other Methuselahs. Successful referendum means each Methuselah burns 1 pool for each point assigned.
Count Germaine
Independent. Red List: Germaine gets +2 bleed against a Methuselah who controls a titled non-Sectless vampire.
Hillanvale
Once each action, Hillanvale can burn 1 blood and discard one card requiring Melpominee [mel] to get +1 bleed. She gets -1 intercept against non-Sectless vampires.
Jan Pieterzoon ADV
Independent: Jan can burn 3 blood to cancel a Gehenna card as it is played.
[MERGED] While Jan is Sectless and there are any Gehenna cards in play, he gets +3 votes.
Matthew Romans
Sabbat: During your unlock phase, Matthew can burn 1 blood to lock a younger non-Sectless vampire controlled by your prey.
Maybe a keyword to avoid "Independent or Anarch" can help, maybe sectless.
Sectless vampires inherit the independent or Anarch sect when needed.
Banner of Neutrality
Requires an Sectless vampire. Only usable when a Camarilla or Sabbat vampire is bleeding you.
Reduce the bleed amount by 1.
Community Justice
+1 stealth action. Requires an Sectless vampire.
Burn a vampire who has diablerized a vampire of the same clan as this acting vampire since your last turn.Exclusion Principle
Successful referendum means each Methuselah gains 1 pool for each ready Sectless vampire he or she controls.
Free States Rant
Requires an Sectless vampire.
Allocate X points among one or more ready vampires, where X is half this acting vampire's capacity rounded up. No 4 or more points can be allocated to each vampire. Successful referendum means each vampire burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this referendum, non-priscus titles are worth 1 less vote each, priscus title is worth 1 less ballot, and burning the Edge is worth 1 additional vote.
Haqim's Law: Judgment
Contract. Trifle.
Lock a ready Sectless Assamite you control to put this card on a younger vampire. Every Independent or Anarch Assamite is considered chosen for this contract. Any Sectless Assamite can enter combat with the attached vampire as a +1 stealth
action.Reckless Agitation
Requires an Sectless vampire with capacity 5 or more.
Allocate 6 points among two or more other Methuselahs. Successful referendum means each Methuselah burns 1 pool for each point assigned.
Count Germaine
Independent. Red List: Germaine gets +2 bleed against a Methuselah who controls a titled non-Sectless vampire.
Hillanvale
Once each action, Hillanvale can burn 1 blood and discard one card requiring Melpominee [mel] to get +1 bleed. She gets -1 intercept against non-Sectless vampires.
Jan Pieterzoon ADV
Independent: Jan can burn 3 blood to cancel a Gehenna card as it is played.
[MERGED] While Jan is Sectless and there are any Gehenna cards in play, he gets +3 votes.
Matthew Romans
Sabbat: During your unlock phase, Matthew can burn 1 blood to lock a younger non-Sectless vampire controlled by your prey.
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
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