How to make Potence better?

@Robert Scythe: Collateral Damage shouldn't be an Action card. Collateral damage isn't something someone sets out to achieve - it is a consequence of combat by definition. Ergo, it should be a combat card IMO. Being a combat card also keeps it from being so telegraphed.

@Lonkka: Ideas are a dime a dozen, it's not hard to think of new cards. Also, I'm on 14 games and counting. I got to play with actual VTES veterans the other week and it was like a different game (all my other players have been newbs.)

Yeah, it needs to stop being a one-note discipline. Things like Brutal Influence are good. Smash & Grab was a good direction after so many years from Rampage. Horseshoes was interesting, as was Hourglass of the Mind (albeit strange... scrounging? really?).

I think it could use better Reactions myself. Especially since Osebo are supposedly enforcers who keep a tight watch on others, but in the CCG tend to be potence heavy and mostly basic on their other in-clans. It could really spruce up a few clans. Just please avoid more +intercept, as we don't need more Nos walls.

Maybe a Retainer card... Like a bullied victim or a gym rat? Go forth & make merry ideas!

Bloodartist wrote:

Boris The Blade wrote: There is no need for philosophical debates. There is no need for new effects that take a wall of text. Just take what the discipline currently does, and make it match the current power level. What does Potence do? Big punches, and break stuff. Why is it not working currently?

That is precisely potence's problem. That is not enough. What it needs is more versatility and less conditional cards. It needs to do more than merely "punch people really hard".

Another issue is that with the way clan disciplines are distributed, potence is rarely paired with other useful disciplines (at least among small/midcap vampires) that might help alleviate its problems.

Clans in fluff use all their disciplines, whereas in vtes you have:
2 potence clans with dominate, one has a stealth discipline and one access to block fails and limited stealth.
3 "clans"(well, brujah of 3 sects) have it with celerity so combat tends to use both or guns.
Blood brothers are similar in that they could use potence, or guns, or just agg poke.
So that leaves Nos and Guruhi. Who have Animalism, so COULD use potence and ani, but that dedicates more cards, and puts you probably at close range, so you need ways to hit harder, then you grapple, and you need to deal with hit back, limiting your options to stuff with fortitude.

So, there isn't HUGE incentive to universally lean on potence, unless you need to grapple. Tupdogs are good with it.
Potence on the bleeding clans with dominate would require ways to deal with hit back in or maybe
The celerity crowd has sideslip, but still gets more mileage out of guns most of the time.
And Nos are better with fortitude TBH.

But some problems would be alleviated by permanent sources of increased base strength. Heroic might and Preturnatural strength are good, but not for every deck. A permanent costing blood or pool as a combat card or a limited action that is +1 strength one per minion would help.

action with no cost or pre-range for blood or a pool:

put this card on the acting vampire. The vampire with this card gets +1 strength. A minion can have only one [cardname].
as above and this vampire gets an optional manuever once each combat, only usable to go to close range.

You get the idea.

ReverendRevolver wrote: Potence on the bleeding clans with dominate would require ways to deal with hit back in or maybe

Necromancy has Blight, which is -1 strength, no additional strikes, and no presses to continue. That prevents a lot of hitback.

kschaefer wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote: Potence on the bleeding clans with dominate would require ways to deal with hit back in or maybe

Necromancy has Blight, which is -1 strength, no additional strikes, and no presses to continue. That prevents a lot of hitback.

Super true, and I cant wait to see that in physical print, but aside from Cashdollars Samedi combat I haven't seen it used much. Samedi can prevent an ivory bow shot with ,Giovanni cant.... but yes, constant grapple presses with a signpost and blight are not terrible. Lasombra need ways to prevent damage, and they have access to such ways in the source material, but have no reason to rely on potence in vtes without it when their best combat card combo is dodge with an additional strike into Entombment.

LivesByProxy wrote: @Robert Scythe: Collateral Damage shouldn't be an Action card. Collateral damage isn't something someone sets out to achieve - it is a consequence of combat by definition. Ergo, it should be a combat card IMO. Being a combat card also keeps it from being so telegraphed.

Doesn't make much sense for your minion to block mine while attempting to put a fang back in my buddy's mouth or rescue someone from torpor across the table and then I transport said minion to one of your locations that gets torn to shreds whilst fighting. At least with the action being directed at the meth with a location the combat could be happening there. Plus potence can use a rush card.

LivesByProxy wrote: @Lonkka: Ideas are a dime a dozen, it's not hard to think of new cards. Also, I'm on 14 games and counting. I got to play with actual VTES veterans the other week and it was like a different game (all my other players have been newbs.)

Fourteen games. That's what Janne meant.