Should the VEKN officially sanction printed proxies?

self biased wrote: while I agree that it doesn't bode well, the VEKN IC is also somewhat notorious for not always communicating effectively. There may still be "nothing to report."

The last time I talked to someone in the VEKN board about this the message was that CCP is looking to sell the whole Vampire/WoD intellectual property, and that allowing someone to print a single game (VtES) would disturb such a deal. I have understanding for that.

ben/damnas/someone- can we get some kind of sticky thread detailing what we know? it might be beneficial to have everything in one place so we don't see this thread every few months.

Ashur: that's news to me. though the logic seems incongruous yo the fact that Onyx Path is developing masquerade v4. Onyx Path =/= CCP, right?

self biased wrote: ben/damnas/someone- can we get some kind of sticky thread detailing what we know? it might be beneficial to have everything in one place so we don't see this thread every few months.

Actually lots of armchair pundits on it, would be useless like teats on a bull...

Ashur: that's news to me. though the logic seems incongruous yo the fact that Onyx Path is developing masquerade v4. Onyx Path =/= CCP, right?

Because Onyx Path is an old agreement, which can be valued and easily priced into the IP transaction. Open negotiations for the IP would be a lot more problematic for pricing the IP transaction.

A lot of very good information about this topic from the 2015 National Coordinator's meeting just got posted here . But below are my take-aways as they relate to proxy cards. (A quick note - I'm trying to summarize information here, not judge - but a lot of this seems valuable to our current discussion)

1) The IC is interested in the possibility, but is hesitant for all the same reasons we are. Particularly the possibility of print-on-demand. A two year “experiment” has been going on in France to allow proxy cards at some (maybe all?) tournaments. The first year proved to be very successful (“Resurrected players,” among other benefits), and while the second year apparently had a much smaller impact, no down sides or problems were reported. There is even a French project started by Orian Gissler to have ~100 decks built entire of proxy cards for new players to use. However, even after all of this, a non-binding vote of the 17 members in attendance resulted in an 8-8 split regarding proxy cards (with 1 abstention).

2) One possibility being discussed is having different tournament formats – some that allow proxy cards, and others that do not. Personally, I think this is a bad way to go, but I can understand why people would want to keep the highest level events “pure.”

3) Walch & Nusser is shutting down their store (actually, it's already down), and then will liquidate their stock of VTES at the end of the year. This means that the largest remaining stock of sealed cards is about to vanish, making it almost impossible for new players to get cards other than through current players, or buying singles.

4) The VEKN has not been incorporated as a non-profit (“HA asked if this was legal given VEKN is not an entity in any legal sense [not a company, charity or other body recognised under law] so cannot make contracts.”). This makes it especially important to step lightly in legal matters since there is nothing to shield volunteers from personal liability.

5) Negotiations for POD are ongoing, but on “hiatus.” Here is a direct quote from the NC minutes:
- talks with CCP regarding the WOD license are on hiatus.
- CCP did however, indicate that they are not interested in licensing a VTES-compatible game that cuts out Wizards.
- still no word from Wizards.
- Design Team developed a boxed set of Sabbat-themed pre-con starters for OneBookshelf, with the idea that it would be the primary Kickstarter product in a 2015 release. If no movement by Wizards or CCP by the end of the year, the VEKN will release the new cards from that set as a Sabbat mini set.

---

Maybe that means that we wait until the end of the year before doing anything “drastic”? I do find it interesting that the wide-spread use of printed proxy cards doesn't seem to have been a determinant in the negotiations. Onebookshelf.com must be confident that players will buy cards if able (I think this is a very reasonable assumption).

Ashur wrote:

self biased wrote: while I agree that it doesn't bode well, the VEKN IC is also somewhat notorious for not always communicating effectively. There may still be "nothing to report."

The last time I talked to someone in the VEKN board about this the message was that CCP is looking to sell the whole Vampire/WoD intellectual property, and that allowing someone to print a single game (VtES) would disturb such a deal. I have understanding for that.

In an unrelated news:
www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/11/a-new-emperor-rises/

i've not followed L5R since the Diamond Edition or so. Though the game has gone through three different designs for its card layouts, and was still successful.