Pressing the Flesh (suggestion)POT

Boris The Blade wrote: That is precisely the mindset that made suck. It is not just weenies who would benefit from being able to splash some , it is the clans that currently make do with only 2 disciplines (Giovanni, Lasombra), clans that happen to have decent crypts (e.g. !Malk),... Even the Nosferatu are better off sticking to only if they do not add extra .

What you seem to be saying is that multi-discipline combat works quite well for the few clans who have appropriate support from their other disciplines e.g. Brujah and !Brujah, Blood Brothers, but not for clans who don't. The obvious solution to that is to give them the appropriate support - whether via disciplined cards, clan cards, transients, permanents, or whatever else. This has multiple benefits:

- it doesn't lead to power creep for the decks that already do function well. Do EuroBrujah need to be made better?

- it keeps different clans and strategies distinct. Celeritous gun combat is different to IG Cel/Pot combat is different to Ani/Vic combat is different to... The decks function differently, using different strategies, and have different weaknesses. It would be nice if Giovanni Nec/Pot, Warrior Setite Ser/Pot etc. combat could be more viable, by slipping them interesting tech. If you only need Potence, all decks end up looking the same.

Boris The Blade wrote: We have 25 years of experience telling us that multi-discipline combat is niche at best because heavy combat is the hardest strategy to pull off.

Heavy combat is often a difficult strategy to pull off for a variety of different reasons, many of which aren't to do with crypt construction. Table hate is hard to deal with (dunking people's vampires makes other people's lives less fun, because they can't act). The slowness of ousting is another significant issue, and has been since the earliest days of V:TES, when Obf/Pot was being used in terrifying ways to rip up tables - but failed to oust anyone because bleeding for tiny amounts was so slow. Pool gain can be awkward, as your master card ratio is awkward due to significantly faster card flow than many decks, and a desire not to jam your hand with master cards, which can make rapid pool loss especially difficult to deal with (especially if combined with bounces to you, cross-table hate etc.).

A potentially fertile furrow to plough would be one in which other disciplines/traits/sects/clans of underperforming combative clans could be mobilised to make some of those issues less of an issue - so that underperforming deck that wants to use Potence splashed as an out-of-clan on some vampires can get a leg up on ousting, that other deck can hold out better against pool depletion etc.

Boris The Blade wrote: Designing with that goal in mind will only lead to more wallpaper.

Helpfully, no-one has to design for one discipline in isolation. You can design for clans, strategies, and the game as a whole.

jamesatzephyr wrote: What you seem to be saying is that multi-discipline combat works quite well for the few clans who have appropriate support from their other disciplines e.g. Brujah and !Brujah, Blood Brothers, but not for clans who don't.

??? Those clans are not addressed at all in the paragraph you are quoting, but in the next one. If you expect others to read your walls of text, you could at least return the favour and try to understand what you are replying to.

None of the cards submitted gives something that it needs to be as efficient as or .

Both of those operate on a basis of inflicting 2 ( guns, no additionals) , 3 ( crows and bats) or 4 or 6 ( DotB, pursuit/blur/diversion) damage a round WHILE being at long range and thus not dealing with 1 or more hit back quite often. Then they press or Psyche to keep the pain coming.
cant avoid S:CE, but Psyche is strictly better than IGrapple for purposes of countering avoidant combat.
Also, counters guns with DotB and Canine Horde, while is countered by both if they can outmaneuver a potential 1 Slam.

A rush thats thematically good but balanced when comparing to other rushes, both requiring and not requiring disciplines, is something they could use. Thematically, additional strength and or press, but no stealth, fit. Of the used, practical rushes, gets 2 that target any vampire, 1 that's just younger(@stealth) . & can rush tapped, as can harass/Ambush, and Rumble targets whoever's there, but Big Game and the tried and true bums rush have DNR limits.

So, the sweet spots for would be:

In skill rush.

Hitting weaker opponents so hard they do one less damage.

A permanent boost to strength less transient than TSP but more fluid than Heroic Might/Preturnatural Strength.

Strikes they have, but these would help.

The rush could even be combo, with rush with optional press only usable to continue at and let's say burn one blood for a swoop maneuver +1 hands limit one per round at

Pressing, fist, shredding I'm not feeling.

Solving a problem could go:

Solving a Problem


Enter combat with a ready minion. This vampire gets an optional press, only usable to continue combat, during the first round.
this vampire burns 1 blood to manuever to close range and gain +1 strength on her initial hand strike this round. Only one solving the problem can be played each round.

I got an idea.

Solving a Problem


Enter combat with a ready minion. This vampire can prevent one damage during combat.
Enter combat with a ready minion. This vampire can prevent one damage each round of combat.

Simplicity.

Preventing damage isn't really potence thing.

Frustrating Rage
Only usable before range is set.
+1 strength for each time the opposing minion maneuvers to long range.
+2 strength for each time the opposing minion maneuvers to long range.

Parting Gift
When opposing minion strikes Combat Ends, that minion takes 2 damage after combat.
As above, but that minion takes 3 damage after combat.